Tag Archive: spiritual abuse


I am sure that many of you can remember at least one time in your life when out of a deep desire to seek after God, you somehow became captivated by some pastor, teacher, or speaker who ended up leading you astray. At the time you truly believed that the person  you placed yourself under in order to come to know God’s Word in a deeper way was a Biblically sound teacher. Then over time red flags began to pop up and then the warnings given to you by the Holy Spirit within you (if you are indeed a genuine follower of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible) made you realize that something was very wrong!

Now to get to my point:

A few of you may remember that back in February of 2016 I shared the testimony of Mishel McCumber of DECEPTION BYTES with you on this→ MYSTICISM MONDAY post. Well, back in October of 2016 Mishel stopped by LIVING4HISGLORY’S FACEBOOK PAGE to let me know: 

“…that the full book based on Adrift in the River  of God is now available on Amazon and on Kindle.” 

I promised her that I would let those who read my blog from time to time know about her new book, and I have been meaning to do so for quite some time now. So today I finally  decided that a Testimony Tuesday post would be the perfect way to do so!

Please pray for Mishel because it must have been extremely difficult to write a book like ‘The View Beneath’ and to relive the spiritual abuse and deception and heartache that she most certainly went through! However, all of us who have been through similar circumstances can attest to the fact that God always uses  what we have been through to help others who are still trapped in the web of deceit and manipulation. We can also say that God’s grace has been sufficient and His strength is always made perfect in our weakness, for when we are weak, then we are strong. May God use Mishel’s book for His glory to open the eyes of many who have been deceived by false teachers!

Truly we must finally come to  the point of realizing the extreme importance of being a follower of Jesus Christ alone, and to read and study His Word so that we will come to know it so well that we will immediately be able to discern truth from error; we must always test the teachings of every man and woman who claims to speak for God against the truth of God’s Word to see if what is being said (and done) is true or not.  (Acts 17:11)

And now, I present to you the testimony of Mishel McCumber, who is a former  member of Rick Joyner’s Morningstar church:

(SOURCE)

Thank you very much for stopping by and taking time out of your busy day to read some of my posts and poems.

God Bless You

~Mary/Living4HisGlory

RELATED SCRIPTURES

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1)

“Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.”         (Acts 20:26-31)

“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” (2 Corinthians 11:3,4)

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:6-9)

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.” (2 Timothy 4:1)

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)

 

 

RELATED VIDEOS

UPDATE:

I am very sorry that I am still not finished writing my post that will be focusing on the apparitions of the Virgin Mary. There is so much information that I need to share with you that I finally realized the only way I can present it to you without it being extremely long is to make it into another series. Lord willing, I am truly hoping to have Part 1  finished for you by this Sunday evening  as long as I am able to gather up all the information that I will need in order to have my taxes done by Friday evening.

Advertisements

****UPDATED 10/20/13** ADDED LINK TO ANOTHER EXCELLENT POST AND SERMON BY TOM CHANTRY (SEE BELOW.  DATE HIGHLIGHTED IN RED)

**UPDATED 10/12/13** ADDED LINK TO TOM CHANTRY’S POST AND SERMON (SEE BELOW).

UPDATED 10/5/13** WELL, I WOULD LIKE ALL OF YOU TO KNOW THAT TWITTER’S FAMOUS ‘MEGACHURCHMOUSE’ WHO IS  “BOLD LIKE A LION” AND DEFINITELY NOT “TIMID AS A MOUSE,”  — AS THEY SAY — HAS BEEN TWEETING UP A STORM LATELY, TRYING TO GET THE ATTENTION OF PASTORS AND CERTAIN CHRISTIAN BLOGGERS HOPING FOR SOMEONE TO  GIVE A BIBLICAL ANALYSIS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING OVER AT HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL ROLLING MEADOWS, CONCERNING THE ATTEMPT AT CHANGING THEIR ELDER STRUCTURE.  AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE QUICK CAPTURES BELOW, HE/SHE (NO ONE REALLY KNOWS FOR SURE) HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL!

Capture HBC Attempting To Change Elder Structure

Capture The Mouse Made Me Do It

MEGACHURCHMOUSE’S LOUD SQUEAKS FINALLY CAPTURED THE ATTENTION OF TOM CHANTRY, PASTOR OF CHRIST REFORMED BAPTIST CHURCH IN MILWAUKEE.  AND YOU CAN READ  HIS EXCELLENT POST BELOW, APTLY ENTITLED, ‘THE MOUSE MADE ME DO IT’ UNDER ‘FURTHER READING.’  AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, MEGACHURCHMOUSE WAS GREATLY APPRECIATIVE:

Capture MegaChurchMouse Humbled And Honored

    

INTRODUCTION

I have been trying to finish writing ‘Part 2’ of my testimony, but in light of recent developments at my former church, Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows, especially concerning September’s Elder Update (that you can find at one of the links here) (UPDATE: 9/28/13 UNFORTUNATELY THAT VIDEO SEEMS TO NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE.  HOWEVER, I JUST FOUND IT ON A WEBSITE AS A VIDEO ON YOUTUBE, AND IT CAN BE SEEN BELOW IN ITS ENTIRETY.  **UPDATE** HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL HAD THAT REMOVED.  **UPDATE** 10/5/13** JUST FOUND THIS YESTERDAY.  SO FOR THE TIME BEING YOU CAN SEE SEPTEMBER’S ‘ELDER UPDATE’ >HERE< ) that focuses on former elders, Scott Phelps and Barry Slabaugh, as well as the statement given by well respected and loved former 20 year elder of Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows, David Corning, (that you can read at ‘The Elephant’s Debt’ website here) I decided to take time to write a poem as a way to express my support for all of them. 

Some of the things you will hear being said, word for word, in September’s ‘Elder Update,’ are as follows:

James MacDonald: “I just want to remind you, uh, that God has entrusted, uh, spiritual authority, uh, to the local church.  And uh, every local church, um, has a an authority under God and we believe that the Bible teaches that the authority of the church is invested in the elders.  And that when the elders speak uh, collectively in agreement they speak uh, for God, uh, to our church.  That’s about as uh, serious as serious gets.  And uh, here are uh four of the elders in our church that have a message, uh, for us and we would do well to take heed to, so listen uh very carefully –these four men are speaking on behalf of the entire elder board of our church on every campus.  Listen now.”

Some of the many things you will hear the elders Paul Inserra, Steve Huston, Randy Williams, Jamie Harrison, say concerning former elders, Scott Phelps and Barry Slabaugh, are as follows:

“They refused to submit to elder consensus , choosing instead to sow discord and create division.”

“Please pray for their repentance and victory over a persistent spirit of superiority and self-righteousness.”

“Their goal is to discredit our pastor, divide this church.  And we call upon the people of Harvest family to make sure this does not happen.”

“Church matters are not to be tried in the court of public opinion.  Publicizing viewpoints rejected by the elder majority for any reason is Satanic to the core and must be dealt with very directly.”

“We warn the people of Harvest Bible Chapel to separate themselves from these false messengers.  Don’t stand in the middle, don’t seek to mediate.  Please avoid these former Harvest elders at all cost, lest you incur great detriment to your own soul.”

In part, the elders say the following to assure the people of Harvest that:

“We the elders of Harvest Bible Chapel are completely satisfied with Pastor James’ growth in grace.”

And that they:

“…stand behind his character and integrity without reservation.”

In closing, they have this to say:

  “Nothing is covered, nothing is unresolved, nothing is ongoing.  Only this attack from the enemy.”

Because of the serious concerns I had after viewing the Elder Update and hearing the above mentioned things that were said by the four elders in the video, I also wrote this poem as another warning (the first being WARNING YOU WITH TEARS) to all Harvest Bible Chapel attendees and members, (and every other Christian, as well) of not only how very important it is for you (and for all of us) to pray for discernment and to test all messages you (we) will hear by those in leadership (of any church) against the truth of God’s Word to make sure that what you (we) are hearing is true, (Acts 17:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:21,22) but also the importance of investigating any claims made so that you (we) will come to know what the truth really is. 

The following poem focuses on some of those concerns, and they are presented to you through many warnings.  I pray discernment and wisdom for all who have watched, and will watch the ‘Elder Update’ in the future. (Well, viewing the video of the ‘Elder Update’ may not be possible any longer, but I am sure it’s still on the Internet somewhere).

My final thoughts to all of you are as follows: Someone is being deceptive and manipulative, and someone is telling the truth.  Either the elders in the video are telling the truth, which would mean that Scott Phelps and Barry Slabaugh are trying to discredit James MacDonald.  But if not, that would mean that James MacDonald as well as some of the elders at Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows are attempting to destroy the reputations of Scott Phelps and Barry Slabaugh, as well as mislead all of you.  So be very cautious about coming to your own conclusion as to who is telling the truth.  Earnestly pray and ask God to reveal the truth to you.  Let God and His Word be the source for the truth that you seek, and pray for discernment concerning the information you find on the Internet.

Don’t allow anyone to manipulate your thinking if you have any valid concerns, even if you are told that “when the elders speak collectively in agreement they speak for God…”

Even though I left HBCRM over 1 1/2 years ago, I still continue to pray for all of you, as well as for James and all others in leadership.

Thank you very much for stopping by.  And thank you also for taking  time out of your busy day to read some of my posts and poems.  

God Bless You

~Mary Dalke/Living4HisGlory

 

UPDATE: 9/28/13 10:30p.m. JUST FOUND THIS ELDER UPDATE ON A WEBSITE, AND IT WAS UPLOADED ON YOUTUBE (UPDATE: 10/3/13 Harvest Bible Chapel had the video removed from the person’s channel who uploaded it on YouTube, so I have replaced it with this screenshot).

Capture HBC ELDERS

PLEASE CONSIDER WATCHING THE FOLLOWING VIDEO SERIES SO YOU ARE AWARE OF THE DANGER SIGNS OF:

TOXIC CHURCHES (Part 1 of 2)

SCRIPTURES FOR YOU TO REFLECT ON

“As for you, see what you have heard from the beginning remains in you.  If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.  And this is what He promised us–eternal life.  I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.  As for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you.  But as His anointing teaches you about all things, and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in Him.” (1 John 2:24-26)

But a prophet who presumes to speak in My name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”  You may say to yourselves,  “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?”  If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.  That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.” (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

“Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations.  They say,  ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says’–when the LORD has not spoken.” (Ezekiel 22:28)

“I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in My name.  They say,  ‘I had a dream!  I had a dream!’  How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds.  Let the prophet who has a dream recount the dream, but let the one who has My Word speak it faithfully .  For what has straw to do with grain?”  declares the LORD.  “Is not My Word like fire, declares the LORD, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?  “Therefore,” declares the LORD, “I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare,  ‘The LORD declares.’  Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,”  declares the LORD.  They tell them and lead My people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them.  They do not benefit these people in the least,”  declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 23:25-32)

“For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness.  Their end will be what their actions deserve.”       (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

“Consider how far you have fallen!  Repent and do the things you did at first.  If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.” (Revelation 2:5)

“Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.” (Acts 3:19)

LeighsPhotography2-1

LEARN TO DISCERN SO YOU WILL NOT BE DECEIVED

Learn to discern so you will not be deceived

Everything a church leader says is not always to be believed

Examine every Scripture concerning what is being said

Test the character of everyone, or you just might be misled

Truth is not always apparent by what you’re being told

You need to think quite carefully, or a lie you may be sold

Destructive labels are being placed upon godly men because it’s simply the truth

these men do seek

And they can paint quite a different picture; one that’s distorted, untrue, and bleak

Attempting to destroy someone’s reputation, possibly because of arrogance or pride

Would be clear evidence of a wayward, rebellious heart that’s forming deep inside

God’s Word warns that men will come and claim to speak for Him

Speaking the deceit of their own hearts, messages spoken not just on a whim

Discernment is truly needed to know who it is that really speaks the truth

But the evidence is very clear, so it doesn’t take a sleuth

A church divided can never stand, but please know that God is in control

Seek the truth in prayer and in His Word, and you will find healing for your soul

Keep your eyes on Christ alone, for by man many are led astray

May God have His way in the hearts of all, and for that we must truly pray

Kingdoms rise and many fall when a man takes his eyes off of the Lord

But through humbleness and true repentance, it all can be restored

This warning goes out to every one of us, for we are all sinners saved by grace

In reverent fear let’s search our hearts, for we will one day see Him face to face

Copyright© 2013 Mary K. Dalke/Living4HisGlory/Living For His Glory All rights reserved.

Scriptures taken from The Holy Bible New International Version® 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society.  Used by permission of Zondervan.  All rights reserved.

RELATED POSTS

WARNING YOU WITH TEARS

WHOM DO YOU FOLLOW

LIKE SHEEP WITHOUT A SHEPHERD

OUT OF THE DARKNESS AND INTO THE LIGHT

FURTHER READING

HOW TO SPOT A MANIPULATIVE CHURCH LEADER

MIND CONTROL AT CHURCH: SIX TELL-TALE SIGNS OF ABUSIVE LEADERS

**ADDED 10/5/13** POSTS BY TOM CHANTRY, PASTOR OF CHRIST REFORMED BAPTIST CHURCH CONCERNING HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL

THE MOUSE MADE ME DO IT

TOUCH NOT THE LORD’S ANOINTED

**ADDED 10/12/13** 

WHAT DOES A FALSE MINISTRY LOOK LIKE?  READ AND LISTEN TO PASTOR TOM CHANTRY ON THIS SUBJECT AT THE LINKS BELOW:

 TEN MARKS OF A FALSE MINISTRY

TOM CHANTRY’S EXCELLENT SERMON >>HERE<<

**ADDED 10/20/13**

TOM CHANTRY SHOWS US THROUGH SCRIPTURE, THE PATTERN FOR A TRUE, BIBLICAL MINISTRY:

SEVEN MARKS OF A TRUE MINISTRY

ANOTHER EXCELLENT SERMON OF THE SAME TITLE BY TOM CHANTRY CAN BE FOUND >>HERE<<

ANY ADVERTISEMENTS THAT SHOW UP ON MY BLOG ARE COMPLETELY THE CHOICE OF WORDPRESS, AND I HAVE NO CONTROL OF WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO POST, NOR CAN I EVEN SEE WHAT THEY MAY CHOOSE TO POST ON MY SITE

INTRODUCTION

This poem came about as the result of a request by a faithful and very encouraging reader of this blog — C. Curtis, who asked me to consider writing ‘a poem about how God leads His people out of the darkness and into the light,’  implying  in part, she’d like a poem about what it would be like for those of us who are presently attending a church where there has been a shift from expository preaching to a watered down, man-centered message (to say the least), to then finding a church where the gospel is clearly presented and Biblical truth is the focus.  I can tell you by personal experience that it’s like a breath of fresh air after a spring rain, or like breathing a sigh of relief after coming to the end of an extremely stressful ordeal.

When I first found the church I am now attending, tears of joy filled my eyes after I heard the pastor preach.  To hear the Word of God being preached without any manipulation or hidden agenda added, was like drinking a refreshing cold glass of water to my parched and thirsty spirit and soul.  Tears also filled my eyes to know that I had finally found a church where I could call my home.  I thanked God for leading me there after an exhausting search for a church that took over a month to find after leaving my former church of almost 15 years — Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows; a church I thought I’d never have to leave. (If you’d like, you can read all about it on my post>> WARNING YOU WITH TEARS).

In prayer, my heart continues to go out to all of you who are still hanging on, hoping and praying for things to one day change, but I just ask that you would examine your heart and test your motives against God’s Word to see if maybe it’s time for you to take a stand for Biblical truth, and to trust God and finally leave.

The following poem is divided into two parts — THE DARKNESS and THE LIGHT — so you can clearly see the contrast of how things are at a church that has given in to compromise, compared to a church where Christ is exalted and God’s Word is preached line upon line, precept upon precept.

Thank you very much to all who continue to check in now and then to read my posts!  God bless you and Happy New Year!

SCRIPTURES FOR YOU TO REFLECT ON

“Why are you downcast, O my soul?  Why so disturbed within me?  Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise Him, my Savior and my God,”  (Psalm43:5)

“This is what the LORD says:  “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.  He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes.  He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives.  “But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in Him.  He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream.  It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green.  It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit.  The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.  Who can understand it?  “I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.”   (Jeremiah17:5-12)

“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.”  (Psalm 118:8)

“Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe.”  (Proverbs 29:25)

“Suppose one of you wants to build a tower.  Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?  For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, saying,  ‘This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.’  “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king.  Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand?  If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace.  In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.”  (Luke 14:28-33)

“Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.  Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.  “You are the salt of the earth.  But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again?  It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.  “You are the light of the world.  A city on a hill cannot be hidden.  Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl.  Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.  (Matthew 5:10-15)

“Be strong and courageous.  Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; He will never leave you nor forsake you.”  (Deuteronomy 31:6)

“For I am the LORD, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.”  (Isaiah 41:13)

“Enter through the narrow gate.  For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.  But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few will find it.  Watch out for false prophets.  They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.  By their fruit you will recognize them.  Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?  Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.  A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.  Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Thus by their fruit you will recognize them.  “Not everyone who says to me,  ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.  Many will say to Me on that day,  ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’  Then I will tell them plainly,  ‘I never knew you.  Away from Me, you evildoers!’ ” Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.  The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”  (Matthew 7:13-27)

“Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past.”  (Isaiah 43:18)

“Forgetting what is behind, and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.”  (Philippians 3:13,14)

“Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to know Him.  As surely as the sun rises, He will appear; He will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.”  (Hosea 6:3)

scenery

OUT OF THE DARKNESS AND INTO THE LIGHT

THE DARKNESS

Many pastors who once stood for Biblical truth, are now following a dangerous path

Away from Christ, their once firm foundation, without repentance they will sadly face God’s wrath

Willingly led astray by those who preach a gospel that’s tainted with false doctrines and compromise

They ignore the clear truths presented in Scripture, some even allow the pleasures of this world

to be the focus of their eyes

Sermons are rarely centered on Christ, and the gospel of Your mercy and grace

But rather on their own dreams and endeavors, these things seem to constantly take their place

Some pastors even twist Your Word to wrongly justify the choices they have made

Attempting to manipulate our emotions, so we’ll go along with their latest charade

Our hearts break for new church attenders, for they are not aware of what many of us know

But we choose to place our trust in You, Lord, and pray the truth to them You will indeed show

We have fervently prayed for our pastor’s eyes to be opened, to repent and return to His first love

But there is not even a glimmer of hope yet to be seen, as we have sought You in prayer for him,

O Lord, our Father above

Our hearts are torn by discouragement and sorrow, hope for change seems to be coming to an end

Our choice to stand for Biblical truth is the reason many of us are without a friend

The blessing of discernment sometimes comes with a very high price to pay

For when we attempt to lovingly speak the truth to expose error, some pastors demand that we leave

and go our own way

Who would have thought that wrongly being branded ‘divisive’ by our pastor, could one day possibly

be part of ‘counting the cost’

We can’t help but wonder if they are truly saved, or is it possible that they are still helplessly lost

I’m ready now, Lord, just lead the way, out of this darkness and into the light

Guide me to where You want me to be, let Your will become clear within my mind and to my sight

THE LIGHT

Out of the darkness and into the light

All that I had hoped and prayed for, is now in plain sight:

A pastor who rightly divides Your Holy Word

Who preaches Scriptures in context; no hidden agenda or distortion of verses is ever heard

A body of believers woven together as one, for they seek not after an exalted man, but only after

Jesus Christ,Your only begotten Son

The songs we sing are hymns of praise that express what You have wrought

When You paid our debt to sin in full, with the blood of Your Son we have been bought

My heart is now free to worship You; all cynicism and bitterness are no longer there

For I have asked for Your forgiveness, and continue to lift my former pastor up to You in prayer

Through it all You’ve taught me to listen carefully to all that I will hear

For Your Word warns of mass deception when the return of Christ is drawing near

A good Berean I have become, so that I will never be deceived

For Your Word above all others, is what’s to be believed

I’ve discovered Your Word is so rich in truth, and so accurate in detail

That it doesn’t matter what man’s intentions are, the truth of Your Word and the gospel will prevail

Dear reader, joy and peace can once again be yours as you start this brand new year

He’ll guide your steps and light your path, and give you hope and courage instead of weariness and fear

To all who have ears to hear, and a heart to understand

He is waiting to lead you out of your spiritual darkness, if you will just trust Him and take His hand

Copyright©2012 Mary K.Dalke/Living4HisGlory/Living For His Glory All rights reserved.  Unauthorized use and/or duplication of any material on Living4HisGlory’s Blog without expressed permission from this blog’s author and/or owner, is strictly prohibited.  Excerpts and links to information may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Mary K. Dalke and Living4HisGlory’s Blog, as well as the author of any of the information at any of the links posted, with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.Scriptures taken from The Holy Bible New International Version® 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society.  Used by permission of Zondervan.  All rights reserved.

Photo obtained from Photobucket – Suns rays

Definitions (Added for interest, because they not only accurately describe how many of us are feeling, but also what is taking place)

Wearinessexhausted in strength, endurance, vigor, or freshness; having one’s patience, tolerance, or pleasure exhausted –used with of <soon grew weary of waiting.

Charade – Latent pretense or deception, especially something so full of pretense as to be a travesty. 

Latent – Present and capable of emerging or developing, but not now visible, obvious, active or symptomatic.

MY STORY — WHY I LEFT HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL ROLLING MEADOWS

If it wasn’t for the serious concerns I have — along with many other people — about some of the choices that Founding And Senior Pastor James MacDonald of Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows  has been making over the past few years or so — which led me to finally leave at the end of January 2012 –I could be saying, ‘I have been attending Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows for 15 years now.’  But sadly, I am unable to do so.

For many years I was deeply blessed by James MacDonald’s solid Biblical teachings that flowed from a heart of love for God and His Word. There was such a passion in his preaching that I had only heard in a few other preachers in the 17 years that I had been a Christian at that point in my life when I first started attending Harvest.  And because of his firm stand against false teachers and how he clearly preached against the ‘prosperity gospel,’ I saw James MacDonald as a man who would never stray from Biblical truth…

I guess the saying is true,  “Never say, “Never.”  Sadly, now James MacDonald is involved with some of the very types of preachers he once strongly spoke out against…

SOME OF WHAT I WENT THROUGH IN THE PAST THAT GOD USED TO TEACH ME THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING DISCERNMENT, AND  THE NEED TO TEST EVERYTHING THAT IS SAID AND DONE IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE

When I first started attending  Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows near the end of June of 1997, I had just left an Assembly of God church that I had been attending for over 16 1/2 years, because the pastor began to get involved with the Pensacola “revival’ that started at the Brownsville Assembly of God church in Pensacola, Florida.   Unbiblical manifestations were taking place at this church, and my former pastor took time off to go there in hopes of bringing this so-called ‘revival’ back to our church… 

He begins talking about the Pensacola ‘revival’ at the 6:23 minute mark

I gave audio tapes to my former pastor that were not only filled with  comments made by pastors who called a Christian radio program to express their serious concerns about this ‘revival,’ but also comments made by those who had been emotionally and spiritually devastated by what they had experienced at the ‘Pensacola revival.’  I also gave my former pastors a letter I wrote that was filled with Scriptures — as well as my valid concerns about this ‘revival’ — believing that God would certainly use His Word — as well as all the information– to open their eyes so they could see that what was taking place at this revival was not of God.  However, things don’t always turn out the way we pray and believe they will turn out.  Instead, I was told that ‘if I did not agree with the direction the church was going in, then I could leave.’ 

One of my friends was the only other person I was aware of who realized the unbiblical nature of this revival, and she had expressed her valid concerns in written form — along with many Scriptures — and gave her letters to the pastors as well. We were then told that we could not tell the women in our Bible study (that she led, and I helped lead in the final year we were there) that we were leaving, or why. But you can be sure that I made the most of the time in our last Bible Study together with those women! Without coming out and telling them that the direction the pastor was heading in was unbiblical, I did the next best thing and played audio recordings of Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Morris Cerillo — and more — speaking the many heretical things they teach, telling them beforehand how important it is to pray for discernment, and how we always need to test the teachings of those who claim to speak for God, against the truth of God’s Word. (Acts 17:11) (1 Thessalonians 5:21,22) 

Many people at my former church followed these preachers, which was another reason why I chose to play those tapes for them.  Sadly, one woman (who attended my former church) had a three year old daughter who was dying from a brain tumor.  She would go to the hospital every day and pray for her daughter, pray Scripture over her daughter, and play Christian music in her daughter’s room; everything that a loving and desperate mom would do for her daughter was done in hopes that God would heal her.  She died a year or so later, and some people at the church told this woman that her daughter died because she didn’t have enough faith to believe for her daughter’s healing!  There is so much abuse, deception, and heartbreak going  on in churches today, mainly because people lack discernment and they do not read and study God’s Word to know what the truth is concerning many important issues!

As the women in our Bible study listened to the tape that I played for them, the looks on their faces almost made me laugh.  I saw at least one woman’s jaw drop in disbelief as she heard Benny Hinn say some of the things he teaches!  And I would have laughed, if it wasn’t for the fact of how so many people are being deceived by pastors who not only preach the ‘prosperity gospel,’ but also by those who are speaking the delusions of their own minds (Psalm 4:2, Jer. 14:14, Jer. 23:26) instead of first testing their ideas against the truth of God’s Word.  It’s one thing to tell someone that a certain pastor’s teachings are unbiblical, but if you truly know God’s Word, you can’t deny the truth when you hear these types of things coming from their own lips –unless of course, someone chooses to reject the truth that God is trying to reveal to them.

When time allows, please consider listening to the following video series.  You will hear some of the unbiblical —  and even outlandish — teachings of Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and many other t.v. preachers.  It makes you realize just how important it is to test the teachings of men against Scripture, and the warning Jesus gave us in Luke 21:8…  “Watch out that you are not deceived.”

So, as you can now imagine, when I first began attending Harvest Bible Chapel I was extremely cautious, and listened very carefully to everything James MacDonald said, and tested everything against Scripture as we are all told to do in God’s Word. (Acts 17:11) (1 Thessalonians 5:21) 

During the week I would also listen to James preach on the radio.  I sensed such a witness in my spirit that he was Biblically solid: his preaching pointed us to Christ, he clearly and powerfully proclaimed the gospel, he spoke of repentance from sin, and he clearly spoke against those who preach a false gospel that focuses on ‘manifestations’ and ‘the blessings of God,’ instead of on the true gospel that sets men free from sin and fills them with a desire to turn from sin and live a life that is fully surrendered to Christ.  I was so thankful to my friend– who had left my former church with me — for telling me about Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows!

In 1999, God used the Scriptural truths James MacDonald presented in his series, ‘I Really Want To Change…So Help Me God,’ to convict me and make me realize that I had to finally deal with certain matters that I knew I had to make right with God –and I did.  There is true freedom and peace when we submit to God; then worry and fear can no longer  have a hold on us.

RED FLAGS

For many years, all was well — or so I thought.  I grew in my commitment to Christ under James MacDonald’s teachings every Sunday as he led us verse by verse through many books of the Bible, and I met many warm and wonderful people.  And yet, every now and then during all that time, something would happen that would cause me to be concerned.  First it was noticing that the women’s ‘Bible studies’ were mostly based on books written by man, instead of being on different books of the Bible.  Many of the books were written by Beth Moore, which is cause for alarm all by itself, as EBenz of Do Not Be Surprised  makes us realize through the information she posts on her website.

Below I have listed some of the many other concerns I had as time went by.  Lord willing, when time allows, I will elaborate on them, add more concerns, and add more links to information. 

(Added 7/16/12) In 2004 — if I remember correctly —  James MacDonald reveals to us that we will all be seated in church divided into ‘flocks’ according to age groups, and each ‘flock’ will have its own ‘flock leader.’  Though this plan was presented to us, it never came to pass –much to my relief!  Do any of you remember that??

(Added 10/14/12 On April 25, 2010, James, preaching through the Book of Revelation, shared how a Jehovah’s Witness man rang his door bell as he was preparing for his sermon on Chapter 14 — which ironically(?) speaks of the 144,000.  He shared with us how he chose to chase the Jehovah’s Witness man and his son away from his home, and away from his neighborhood.  I remember being deeply grieved at the thought of him passing up an opportunity to share the gospel with them, and also grieved when many people in church responded by choosing to laugh at what James chose to do, instead of being stunned into silence at his lack of compassion and desire to share the gospel with these sincere, but sincerely deceived people.  If you’d like, you can listen to this sermon here: MAKING THE GOSPEL MY OWN 

Finding Celebration Of Discipline by Richard Foster as well as Sacred Marriage by Gary L. Thomas and Practicing The Presence Of God by Brother Lawrence on Harvest’s Bible Chapel’s ‘Recommended Reading List

Finding Jesus Calling, a devotional book by Sarah Young  in Harvest’s Bookstore

Elephant Room Conference 1 – March 31, 2011

April 2nd and 3rd 2011 Mark Driscoll is guest speaker at Harvest   **(UPDATED 7/15/12) When I first heard that James was getting involved with Mark Driscoll, I wanted to find some information about him to know just what he stood for, and this is what I found that filled me with concern: SBC CONVENTIONFIVE MOTIONS INVOLVE MARK DRISCOLL and this… FROM THE LIGHTHOUSE BLOGMark Driscoll IS A Contemplative Proponent, (ADDED 7/24/12)>> MARK DRISCOLL RECOMMENDS MANY BOOKS PROMOTING CONTEMPLATIVE/CENTERING PRAYER

May 22, 2011 Pastor James gives an altar call…to join the church

August 14th 2011 – Steven Furtick is the guest speaker at Harvest

January 22, 2012 – James preaches at  Steven Furtick’s Code Orange Revival

January 25th 2012 – Elephant Room 2 T D Jakes,  presently known by many to be a Modalist, is one of the guest speakers

Wayne Cordeiro, who wrote The Dream Releasers is one of the guest speakers at the Elephant Room 2 Conference

Learning in 2011 that the book,  ‘Experiencing God: Knowing And Doing The Will Of God,’ by  Henry Blackaby that was used for a ‘Bible’ study at Harvest that I was part of in 1998, is unbiblical.

GOD CONFIRMS MY CONCERNS

On August 14th 2011, while James MacDonald was on his summer break — to rest and to seek God in the direction he was to lead his congregation when he returned — Steven Furtick, pastor of Elevation Church in Charlotte, North Carolina was the guest speaker at Harvest Rolling Meadows.  I put aside all I had heard about him and the impression I received of him by watching the videos posted below, and prayed for God to give me discernment as he spoke.

 

I sat in my usual spot in church — which was the third row from the front — so I definitely was able to clearly hear everything he said.  He began by praising James MacDonald and telling us how blessed we were to have him as our pastor, and continued until he had many people at Harvest loudly cheering.  All around me people stood to their feet and clapped to express their thanks to James, and they filled the church sanctuary with loud cheers and thunderous applause.  

Even though I deeply appreciated James’ ministry for many years, I chose to remain  seated because I was no longer in agreement with the direction he seemed to be going in —  and leading us in as well;  I would not allow myself to be pressured into standing along with everyone else and applauding.  It was a matter of principle, no matter what others may have thought of me because I chose not to stand. 

As I looked all around, the only other people that I could see who remained seated were two people who sat in front of me.  Even my friends joined in the somewhat chaotic goings on!  I must admit the verses in Acts 12:21-23 about ‘Herod not giving praise to God and how he was struck down by an angel and eaten by worms and died’  came to mind.  That’s how out of control it was for at least 30 seconds — although it seemed much longer.  Only God deserves that level of praise!

Then I was shocked as Steven Furtick began to judge our hearts by loudly and arrogantly telling us that we were judging him because of how he was dressed and because he was so young!  I wasn’t thinking anything like that, and I am sure no one else was either!  We were there hoping to hear God’s Word preached!  Something we really didn’t hear, to be honest with you.  His message was based on 1 Samuel 14:1-7, which was taken out of context and he seemed to be using it to promote the message in his book, SUN STAND STILL.’   

He ended his message by telling us to send James a text message saying,  “I am with you heart and soul.” (1 Samuel 14:7)  I came home feeling shocked, sad, disgusted, discouraged, and so alone!  I couldn’t understand how James could have first allowed Mark Driscoll –and now Steven Furtick — to take his place and ‘preach’ to us when he is supposed to watch over us and protect us from those who twist and distort God’s Word!  (Acts 20:28-30)  ( (Lord willing, I will add more information to prove my valid concerns about Steven Furtick and Mark Driscoll in the near future. (Added information on M D above, under ‘Red Flags’).   In the mean time, watch the videos posted above on Steven Furtick, and please be sure to listen to the shocking things that Mark Driscoll says on the video posted at the link below, entitled ‘MARK DRISCOLL ADDRESSING A GROUP OF ACTS 29 PASTORS’ ).

Hoping to find some more information on Steven Furtick, I went online and did a ‘search’ using ‘Harvest Bible Chapel Steven Furtick,’  and found this: “THE STEVEN FURTICK SHOW” NOW PLAYING AT HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL  I found encouragement and comfort from EBenz, (as do all who have been devastated by what is happening at Harvest — and other churches, as well — when they find their way to her blog) and her Biblical analysis of Steven Furtick’s sermon (in which EBenz heard by going to the  Harvest Bible Chapel she once regularly attended) confirmed my thoughts as well. Since I have nothing to hide, I will tell you that I posted under the name of ‘No Longer Alone.’

REASONS WHY I LEFT HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL

In the final year or so before leaving, I noticed a difference in how James was preaching that filled me with concern.  It seemed as if he was using passages of Scripture to work in what he was really trying to say to us.  Pray for discernment, listen to the following sermon that James preached on May 6th 2012, and see what your conclusions are… (UPDATE 3-29-14 LAST NIGHT THIS VIDEO WAS TAKEN DOWN.  IT WAS CALLED ‘DRIVING CONSUMERS OUT OF THE CHURCH’).

Through many of the sermons James preached  in 2011, I felt as if he was trying to manipulate us and use fear tactics to silence us into submission and make us think that any serious concern we had was actually rebellion.  Was I the only one sensing that?  None of my friends expressed any concern.  I was very close to leaving but chose first to sincerely pray for James, and I even took time many Sundays after church to pray for him.  I didn’t share any of the details with my friends, but simply told them ‘I was going to stay for a while and pray for Pastor James.’

Depending upon what happened during the Elephant Room Conference 2 on January 25, 2012 — concerning T D Jakes and his Modalistic beliefs and the ‘prosperity gospel’ he preaches — would determine if I would stay or leave. Would T D Jakes be questioned about his beliefs on the Trinity?  Would they use Scripture to try to help him see the truth concerning the Trinity? Because even though the word ‘Trinity’ is not in the Bible, and it is completely impossible to fully comprehend this truth with our human minds, the concept is clearly presented in Scripture and it is one of the basic doctrines of Orthodox Christianity. Would they lovingly confront him concerning the ‘prosperity gospel’ he preaches? 

Sadly, in spite of the fact that Mark Driscoll did question T D Jakes about his beliefs and asked him to explain how he now understood the Trinity, it is clear to hear by listening to many videos of the conversations with T D Jakes during E R 2, that at the end of the night he was declared as having embraced the Biblical understanding of the Trinity, in spite of the fact that he continued to use Modalistic language as he explained what he now believes.  (Please consider listening to the videos below and reading the information at the links below, as well).

Upon learning what happened — or should I say what didn’t happen — concerning T D Jakes, I decided not to return to Harvest.  These Scriptures in 3 John 1:3,4 spoke to me loud and clear:

“It gave me great joy to have some brothers come and tell about your faithfulness to the truth and how you continue to walk in the truth.  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.” 

In spite of  the fact that I had no idea what church I would now go to, and the sadness I felt from leaving after so many years, and the close friends I would have to leave behind, I made the decision to leave and honor God by ‘walking in the truth. ‘ 

Even though it has been over five months since I left Harvest, I still pray for James, all those in leadership — as well as for all the people who attend Harvest — and I will continue to do so. 

I would like to sincerely say thank you and express my deep appreciation to the pastors who boldly took a stand for Biblical truth and disassociated from Harvest.  (See information posted below, under ‘SOME DEVASTATION CAUSED BY E R2’)  May God richly bless each of you and your ministries.  You acted in a Biblical manner by first going to him and personally expressing your concerns to James MacDonald and the elders, as well as warning James about the choices he has been making.  What a godly example each of you are to the people at your church as being a shepherd who watches over your flock and protects them from deception, false doctrine, and false teachers, (Acts 20:26-31) and who ‘earnestly contends for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.’  (Jude 3)  Each of you will definitely hear Jesus say to you,  “Well done, thou good and faithful servant.”  (Matthew 25:21)  Something that all of us — who follow Jesus and have learned the importance of ‘contending for the faith,’ — long to hear one day.

I also want to personally express my thanks to some of the many in Christian ministry who have openly taken a stand for Biblical truth and continue to voice their concerns about what happened during E R 2: Thabiti Anyabwile,    SENIOR PASTOR OF FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH, GRAND CAYMAN, James White of ALPHA AND OMEGA MINISTRIES, Carl Trueman, A CHRISTIAN THEOLOGIAN AND DEPARTMENTAL CHAIR OF CHURCH HISTORY AT WESTMINSTER THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY, Voddie Baucham, PASTOR OF GRACE FAMILY BAPTIST CHURCH who was invited to be a part of E R 2, but turned down his invitation after being invited when it was made known that Mark Dever,  SENIOR PASTOR OF CAPITAL HILL BAPTIST CHURCH chose to pull out of E R 2 shortly after it was announced that T D Jakes would also be a participant, . 

Many thanks also to EBenz of DO NOT BE SURPRISED and CHRISTIAN RESEARCH NETWORK, Ken Silva of APPRISING MINISTRIES and CHRISTIAN RESEARCH NETWORK, and Chris Rosebrough of FIGHTING FOR THE FAITH.  God bless all of you and your ministries, as you continue to take a stand for Biblical truth and use Scripture to expose the deception and chaos that is taking place in the church in so many ways today!

**UPDATED 10/13/12 ** Many thanks also to Scott William Bryant for his blog, BLOOD STAINED INK, where he has written and posted numerous articles shedding light on the valid reasons that many have because of the unbiblical direction that James MacDonald seems to be heading in.  In doing so, Scott has given many devastated attendees and members of Harvest Bible Chapel not only an opportunity to openly express their hurt and concerns, but also he has given them an opportunity to interact with, and to encourage one another, as well.

By now many of you are probably aware of the new website that was set up by Scott William Bryant, as well as by Ryan Mahoney, (who now also writes for ‘BLOOD STAINED INK’), called THE ELEPHANT’S DEBT.  Both of these men and their families formerly attended Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows. 

Briefly, here is part of the reason for their website: 

The Elephant’s Debt is a website dedicated to exploring some of the underlying reasons why many people have recently begun to both privately and publicly question the ministry of Pastor James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel of Rolling Meadows, Illinois.”  SOURCE

I will not be commenting or writing about this.  I will, however, ask you to please pray for Scott, Ryan, and for their families, as well as discernment, wisdom, and courage for the many families who still attend Harvest. I also would like to ask you to please earnestly pray for Pastor James –as well as for all the other pastors and elders at this time —  for God to have His way in their hearts.

  *****************************************************************************

For those of you who have left a church — or who have been ‘catapulted’ out because you chose to take a stand for Biblical truth by expressing your concerns to those in leadership — this video is for you:

YOU MAY BE WONDERING 

Some of you may be wondering what my purpose is in writing and posting all of this, or if I have talked to any of the elders or pastors at Harvest about my concerns before leaving.  So to answer those who may have those questions, I will tell you:

My main purpose in writing this is to take a stand for Biblical truth; to ‘earnestly contend for the faith’ (Jude 3)  in a day when spiritual deception is increasingly invading many churches.  And sadly, many Christians are unaware of what is taking place right before their eyes!  We trust those in leadership, and many of us would never even consider the possibility that we could be led astray by any of them!  All of us need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone.  We are never to think so highly of a pastor or a preacher that we find ourselves at the point of thinking that their words can be completely trusted and that there is no need to test their words and actions in light of Scripture.  Remember the Bereans tested the words of Paul the apostle daily against Scripture to see if what he said was true, and God used him to record His words in most of the New Testament!  How much more then should we now test the words of men in a day when so much spiritual deception is taking place, to see if these things be so!

“Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” (Acts 17:11)

I urge you to test every sermon that James MacDonald preaches, as well as the messages of pastors that James MacDonald associates with, endorses, or allows to preach from his pulpit, and any other pastor or teacher you may listen to.  Read along in your Bible to make sure that the verses their sermons are based on are really saying what you are told they are saying.  Read the verses in context; you get a full understanding of the meaning of the verse by reading the surrounding verses.  Above all, pray for discernment!  There is so much spiritual deception entering churches everywhere today because people fail to test things in light of Scripture! (Read the information at the links I added to the ‘Introduction’  of my poem, AN ANCHOR FOR MY SOUL, to learn more).

Another purpose I have for writing this, is I am hoping that those of you who have serious concerns about the things that are happening at Harvest Bible Chapel — or any other church you may be attending — may be led here — as well as to many other sites where people stand for Biblical truth and express their valid concerns about what is happening there and elsewhere — so that you may have your thoughts and valid concerns confirmed by information and Scriptures. 

There was a time when I thought that I was the only one who had concerns about the direction that James MacDonald was going in.  That is, until I found comments on videos and other blogs that made me realize there were many others at Harvest who had concerns as well.  There was comfort in knowing that I was not alone as I sought God for wisdom to confirm my concerns and to reveal to me through the truth of His Word what He wanted me to do.  So now I am hoping that those of you who may feel sad, disconnected, confused, and alone — and can’t understand why no one else is concerned like you are — may be led here, as you pray and seek God concerning what He would have you to do.  I pray you will find comfort in knowing that you are definitely not alone.

And yes, I did express my concerns to someone at Harvest, Rolling Meadows.  When I received a form email that they send out to those who have not been in attendance for over a month — for one reason or another — I decided to reply.  I told them the reason why it had been over a month since I last attended, was due to the fact that I am no longer attending Harvest.  I explained some of the reasons why I left, but first I made sure they knew how blessed I was by the sermons that James preached for many years since I first started attending. 

I would have talked with an elder or a pastor in person before I left, but to be honest with you, I didn’t think there was anyone there who would take my concerns seriously.  And sadly, the replies I received from the email I sent expressing my concerns, clearly confirmed that. 

My prayer for James is — and will continue to be — for God to open his eyes and make him finally realize just how far he has drifted away from being the man he once was; a man who stood strong for Biblical truth and would never compromise.  I pray he will go back to focusing on preaching the gospel in all its beauty and simplicity.  The gospel was — and always will be — the power of God unto salvation.  (Romans 1:16)  We need no new plans or methods to grow the church.  God alone is the one who will do that, as we are faithful to preach His Word and pray…”They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.  And the Lord added to their number daily those who are being saved.  (Acts 2:42,47)

SCRIPTURES TO REFLECT ON

“Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.  Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.  They will turn their ears from the truth and turn aside to myths.” (2 Timothy 4:2-4)

“See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.” (Colossians 2:8)

“Watch your doctrine and your life closely.  Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (1 Timothy 4:16)

“A man of many companions may come to ruin.” (Proverbs 18:24)

“Bad company corrupts good character.” (1 Corinthians 15:33)

“Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.  But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.  Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.  For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.  Therefore do not be partners with them.  For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.  Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord.  Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.  For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.  But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible.  This is why it is said: “Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”  Be very careful, then, how you live — not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.  Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.” (Ephesians 5:1-17)

“Be self-controlled and alert.  Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)

“Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men.  For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.  Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.  Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.  I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.  Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.  Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.” (Acts 20:26-31)

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED AT THE ELEPHANT ROOM 2 CONFERENCE

THABITI ANYABWILE, SENIOR PASTOR OF FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF GRAND CAYMAN AND A COUNCIL MEMBER WITH THE GOSPEL COALITION SHARES HIS THOUGHTS WITH US CONCERNING T D JAKES AND THE ELEPHANT ROOM 2 CONFERENCE

VODDIE BAUCHAM PASTOR OF GRACE FAMILY BAPTIST CHURCH SHARES HIS THOUGHTS ON THE ELEPHANT ROOM 2 CONFERENCE

DAVID NORMAN OF BLOG DOT COM SHARES WITH US WHY JAMES MACDONALD IS WRONG AND T D JAKES IS WRONGER

TREVIN WAX OF THE GOSPEL COALITION SHARES HIS THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ELEPHANT ROOM 2 CONFERENCE– PRO AND CON —

JAMES WHITE – REVIEWING T D JAKES’ COMMENTS IN THE ELEPHANT ROOM

JAMES WHITE ‘THE FORGOTTEN TRINITY’

**(ADDED 4/07/13)**JUST FOUND THE FOLLOWING VIDEOS CONCERNING JAMES MACDONALD, T D JAKES, AND ‘ELEPHANT ROOM 2’  Todd Friel points out the fact that James MacDonald is not the same, and plays clips of James at E R 2 to demonstrate how he no longer takes a firm stand on the importance of doctrine.  Sadly, there are many of us who strongly agree. 😦 

PART 1 OF 3

‘JAMES MACDONALD IS DEFENDING T D JAKE.  BAD NEWS’

‘IS T D JAKES ORTHODOX OR ANOTHER EVASIVE MODALIST?’  YOU BE THE JUDGE

‘HAS T D JAKES BROUGHT THE WORD OF FAITH INTO ORTHODOXY?’

‘WAITING FOR PUBLIC REPENTANCE FROM T D JAKES’

***********************************************************************

SOME DEVASTATION CAUSED BY THE ELEPHANT ROOM 2 CONFERENCE CONCERNING T D JAKES

#1 HARVEST BIBLE CHURCH IN DETROIT DISASSOCIATES FROM HARVEST BIBLE FELLOWSHIP

#2 HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL PRESCOTT AZ DISASSOCIATES WITH HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL

#3HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL NEW LENNOX DISASSOCIATES FROM HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL FELLOWSHIP

#4FOURTH CHURCH KICKED OUT FROM FELLOWSHIP VIA CATAPULT?

#5 **ADDED 4/7/13** FIFTH CHURCH SEPARATES FROM HARVEST BIBLE FELLOWSHIP

BE A BEREAN (ACTS 17:11) AND TEST THE

FOLLOWING MESSAGES IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE

1)CLICK HERE>>MARK DRISCOLL ADDRESSING A GROUP OF ACTS 29 PASTORS

2)CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO THE APRIL 25th 2012’s FULL VERSION OF >>PASTOR JAMES MACDONALD SPEAKING TO A GROUP OF PASTORS AT HARVEST U<<  His message is entitled, ‘FIVE THINGS YOUR PASTOR WANTS YOU TO KNOW BUT CAN’T TELL YOU’  This message is a ‘must listen to’ for all who attend Harvest and have not yet heard this!

Now please consider going to the following link and listen to a well done Biblical analysis by Chris Rosebrough that he did on May 16th 2012 of the above message by James MacDonald.  Again, pray for discernment, and test everything that is said–  by both Chris, as well as James — in light of Scripture: HERESY IS THE NEW ORTHODOXY

SOME FINAL QUESTIONS AND TIME TO USE OUR CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS:

In the ‘Purpose Statement’ for the E R, it says:

“The Elephant Room is more than an event.  It is the outgrowth of an idea.  The idea that the best way forward for the followers of Jesus lies not in crouching behind walls of disagreement but in conversation of all kinds of leaders about what the Scriptures actually teach.  We must insist on the Biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice but not isolate ourselves from relationship even with those who believe much differently.

These are conversations about the most Christ honoring ways of building a church.  Our goal is unity, however a true unity cannot be fashioned in pretense or denial of truth nor can it be won among those who prefer sectarianism to the unity Jesus prayed for.  To advance Christ’s call to unity we must do what men have always done, we must push and prod and challenge and sharpen each other’s beliefs and methods.  Fidelity and fruitfulness, both matter.  No one has a corner on the truth and methods must do more than ‘work.’  (SOURCE)

Knowing that we will all stand before God one day and give an account for the things we have done with our time, will James MacDonald be able to confidently stand before God and say that he ‘earnestly contended for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints,’ (Jude 3) concerning the time he spent in the E R with T D Jakes?

Can James MacDonald confidently say that he is watching over the people who have been entrusted to his care at Harvest, when he is clearly blurring the line between truth and error by declaring T D Jakes as now having an Orthodox view of the Trinity, when so many Biblical scholars who have analyzed what T D Jakes said during the ‘Elephant Room Conference’ disagree?

If, as the E R ‘purpose statement’ clearly states, “We must insist on the Biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice,” why then was T D Jakes not confronted on the ‘prosperity gospel’ that he preaches? 

Why wasn’t T D Jakes asked more direct questions concerning his belief on the Trinity? 

If T D Jakes no longer holds to the Modalistic view of the Trinity, why then has he not openly repented and made it clear verbally and in writing that he no longer holds to that view but now embraces the Biblical view of the Trinity?

Since God’s Word clearly shows us in 1 Peter 5:8 that ‘the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour,’ could it be possible that the ‘Elephant Room Conference’ — an idea that started out with so much potential for God to use James MacDonald to firmly but lovingly use Scripture in order to expose error in certain pastor’s ministries, and to encourage certain pastors to ‘insist on the Biblical Gospel’ — is now being used by Satan to distract and deceive James MacDonald in order to lead him astray?

Knowing that God’s Word tells us that ‘the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, who can know it,’ (Jer. 17:9)  how can James MacDonald be certain that the idea for the Elephant Room Conference was from God? 

If he will say it was not specifically an idea from God but just his own idea, does he not realize that he is still accountable to God for what he allows to take place in the E R? 

Does he not realize he is still responsible for the information he presents to the people at these conferences that will also be recorded on DVD’s for people to purchase and listen to? 

Knowing that we are to confront those who teach error, can James MacDonald really say that God is pleased with him when he failed to confront T D Jakes concerning his prosperity teachings; teachings that he once strongly spoke out against? 

SOME THINGS TO THINK ABOUT

Knowing that God’s Word says in Ephesians 6:10-17, that we are to put on the full armor of God so we can take our stand against the devil’s schemes, and that we are fighting not against flesh and blood, but rather against the rulers, authorities, powers of this dark world, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms,’ could it be possible that Satan is using some of the pastors that James is now involved with in order to silence or destroy his ability to discern truth from error? 

Knowing that God has used James and his ministry in powerful ways for so many years to reveal the true Gospel to many seeking truth, and leading a person to a true understanding  that ‘if the Gospel message hasn’t changed you, then it hasn’t saved you,’ and again remembering that ‘the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour,’ — could it be possible that Satan is leading James astray in an attempt to destroy not only his ministry but also James himself? 

IN CONCLUSION

Don’t ever give up or allow anyone to shut down the ability that God has given you to discern truth from error; don’t ever allow anyone to lead you to believe that what you may hear being said or what you see happening (in a church or elsewhere) that is giving you a strong sense of concern because it seems unbiblical — is actually rebellion.  If something does not line up with Scripture, you can be sure that it is God’s Holy Spirit revealing truth to you through God’s Word to expose errors and to protect you from being deceived. 

I assure you that my motive is not to tear down Pastor James MacDonald, his ministry, those in leadership at Harvest Bible Chapel, or any pastor he chooses to involve himself with.  I am not judging James MacDonald’s heart or his intentions, for God’s Word clearly says that He will be the one to do that  (John 12:48, Hebrews 4:13, 2 Peter 3:9-14)  My intent clearly is to make believers alert and aware of what is happening in many churches today, and the importance of praying for discernment and testing everything in light of Scripture, (Acts 17:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:21,22), so that you will not be deceived by anyone.

All of us need to be reminded that Jesus warns us many times in Scripture that spiritual deception will take place in the last days (Matthew 24, Luke 21).  One has only to look at the condition that our world is in today, and it won’t take long to realize that we are indeed living in the last days: same sex marriage being made legal, gender confusion, abortion, the destruction of the family as we once knew it, increase in the divorce rate even among Christian couples, famines, the increase and intensity of earthquakes worldwide, the attempt to destroy the nation of Israel, denial of Biblical truth as well as the many attempts to destroy Biblical truth and to reinvent Christianity.  Sadly, many Christians are being led into deception and even ‘departing from the faith’ by accepting ‘doctrines of demons’ ;  they are deceived into embracing unbiblical ‘new age’ practices, simply because they are ‘Christianized’ by being introduced now as ‘Contemplative Prayer,’ ‘Lectio Divina,’ ‘Ignatian practices,’ and ‘Christoga’ — an attempt to merge yoga, (a practice that seeks to yoke a person with the Hindu God Brahma) with Christianity, and still claim that it is an exercise).  I could go on and on. 

Please consider doing a ‘search’ on the above terms on some of the many Christian websites that seek to ‘contend for the faith’ and expose spiritual deception with solid Biblical truth, such as:APPRISING MINISTRIES,  CHRISTIAN RESEARCH NETWORK,  DECEPTION IN THE CHURCH, DO NOT BE SURPRISED, LIGHTHOUSE TRAILS RESEARCH, and SOUTHERN VIEW CHAPEL for detailed information on these unbiblical practices. 

(ADDED 7/16/12)  Here’s a link to some very good information by Gary Gilley, to start you off on your search for truth and help you realize how some people can use the reading of Scriptures — something that seems innocent and wonderful — to actually lead you into an unbiblical and dangerous occultic practice know as SACRED READING (LECTIO DIVINA) Is this happening at your church?  Please don’t allow yourself to be deceived!

Spiritual deception in different forms has been entering churches for a long time now, and many are being led into deception.  Don’t allow yourself to be deceived; pray for wisdom and discernment, read and study God’s Word, and be sure to test everything in light of Scripture.  Daily choose to walk in truth, and follow and obey Jesus and Him alone!

I could say so much more, but will allow the thoughts in my following poem that came together out of a heart filled with concern over what is happening at Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows speak for me.  May God give you eyes to see and ears to hear what He is revealing to you, and wisdom and courage to know and to do what He is showing you to do.

Please pray with me that God will give wisdom and a strong sense of discernment to James MacDonald, those in leadership at Harvest, and especially to the people who attend Harvest — and other churches — where the slow drift from Biblical truth to compromise is taking place.  Pray that God will give James MacDonald a heart of true repentance and that he would return to having his main focus be on preaching the gospel as he once did — in truth, in power, and without apology.

“Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful.”              (Colossians 4:2)

“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes…”  (Romans 1:16) 

Lord willing, I will be updating this post with more Scriptures, more for you to think about, and more information as well, when time allows.  

**UPDATED 10/24/12** IS IT BIBLICAL WHEN A PASTOR ‘CASTS A VISION’ FOR HIS CHURCH? CHRIS ROSEBROUGH FROM ‘FIGHTING FOR THE FAITH‘ /LETTER OF MARQUE  GIVES US A BIBLICAL ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION IN HIS HOUR LONG INTERVIEW ON THE ‘ISSUES ETC.’ RADIO PROGRAM>>‘IS VISION CASTING BIBLICAL?’     CONSIDER ALSO LISTENING TO THE VIDEO THAT FOLLOWS, WHERE CHRIS ANSWERS A LISTENER’S EMAIL CONCERNING VISION CASTING

**UPDATED 6/30/13** (Few final thoughts added).

By now I am sure that at least some of you are aware of the fact that three Elders have recently resigned from Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows: Scott Phelps, Dan Marquardt,  and Barry Slabaugh.  According to the Elders Update on Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows website, this is what they say:

Capture elders updateI just noticed — and find it quite interesting — that the final comment I originally saw in the above Elder’s update before I used ‘quick capture,’  has now been removed.  And that comment was:

“Cue the music. It’s time to sing, “We’re United.” 

The point I was going to make — and still will make — is this: How can the writer of this ‘update’ speak so often of  ‘unity’ when three — not just one Elder– has had concerns?   Or in their words, 

“These men have expressed dissatisfaction over many months with how compensation is set, how elder authority is shared, and whether Pastor James has truly owned his part in past conflict.” 

If there was just one Elder who had concerns — as valid as they could still be — it wouldn’t clearly signal a problem. However, three elders in ‘unity’ over concerns/’dissatisfaction over many months’ is something that should not be overlooked.

How also can they continue to speak of ‘unity’ knowing full well of the many — who attend, or who are members of Harvest — who have expressed their sadness and concerns to some of the Elders about the direction that James is now going in, only to have their concerns be ignored?  Or worse yet, how can they speak so much about ‘unity’ when some of these Elders — or even Pastors — have belittled, ridiculed, or even ‘catapulted’ some of these people out of Harvest?! 

How can they continue to speak of ‘unity’ when they are aware of the many who have left Harvest; some sharing their valid reasons for doing so, some choosing to let their absence speak for them instead of their words, letting Harvest leadership know that they are not ‘united’ with James and the direction he is leading the church?

They continue to speak of ‘unity’ and yet so many people at Harvest are discouraged and running out of hope after  praying and waiting for many years (just as I did before finally leaving) believing that James will repent and return to focusing on preaching the gospel, and that he would also distance himself from certain pastors who many of us have valid reasons to be concerned about.

The writer of this ‘Elders Update’ begins by saying, “The Elders are unanimously satisfied with his (James’) response to the criticism received,” and in doing so, they seem to downplay and disregard the fact that three Elders are not satisfied.  They report their “gratitude for the “unity” that has prevailed among our Elders during this season,” and speak of ‘God being gracious to consistently’ maintain our unity of purpose and spirit,” and then this person seems to just simply and casually interject and — dare I say — even tries to hide or blend into this update the most important  statement that clearly shows the truth that there is disunity among the Elders, by then following with,  “An isolated dissension among three elders, Scott Phelps, Dan Marquardt, and Barry Slabaugh, has come to a climax in recent weeks.  These men have expressed dissatisfaction over many months…” Note that they have been expressing their dissatisfaction over many months, and that these are not recent concerns they have had.  Concerns that must be so significant to them that they chose to stand strong and not come comfortably under their collective authority, (as mentioned in the update) but chose instead to resign.  Let’s be in prayer for these men and their families.

Many other questions come to mind when reading that update.  The most important one being that one is left to wonder –just how many other Elders might possibly have valid concerns, yet stay silent because of fear of losing their jobs?

Continue to pray, Harvesters.  Pray especially for discernment.  Continue to pray for James, Rick, the campus pastors and the Elders, and for those who attend and are members of Harvest.  Study and search the Scriptures, and think carefully about all that you are told from the pulpit. 

Please know that I am praying for all of you.  God bless you.

**UPDATE 10/7/13**

For those of you who have been wondering about Dave Corning, and why it is that no one has seen him around Harvest Bible Chapel for such a very long time, you don’t need to wonder any longer.  He has decided to come forward and release his statement concerning why he and his wife Betsy left Harvest so that he can not only address the character of James MacDonald, but also so he can defend the character of the two elders, Scott Phelps and Barry Slabaugh, who were the focus of a video played for the entire congregation during their church service (which you can hopefully still see >HERE

In this video the people of Harvest Bible Chapel were told by HBC Elders, Paul Inserra, Steve Huston, Randy Williams, and Jamie Harrison to: separate themselves from these false messengers,” — meaning, Scott and Barry — and to “avoid these former Harvest elders at all cost…” 

Scott and Barry were also accused by these elders when they stated: “Their goal is to discredit our pastor and divide this church.”

One of the most disturbing things that those at Harvest Bible Chapel heard were the words spoken by  James MacDonald right before the video was played.  And his words were:

“I just want to remind you that God has entrusted spiritual authority to the local church.  And every local church has an authority under God and we believe that the Bible teaches that the authority of the church is invested in the elders.  And that when the elders speak collectively in agreement they speak for God to our church.”

When I heard him say those words, it was as if I was “catapulted” (sorry for using that word in light of what many of us know concerning HBC) back in time to when I was a Roman Catholic.  Catholics are told that when the pope speaks “ex cathedra” (Literally “from the chair.”  When the pope speaks in matters of faith and doctrine, he is said to speak infallibly; speaking the very words of God, and therefore all Catholics must believe what he says) then they are to believe his words without question, because he is speaking directly from God.  So for James MacDonald to tell those at Harvest that “when the elders speak collectively in agreement they speak for God,” basically many who have their total trust in the leadership at Harvest may not pray for discernment and may not use the ability that God has given them to carefully think about what is being said and some may even choose not to test what is being said in light of Scripture as God’s Word clearly shows us we are to do in Acts 17:11 and 1 Thessalonians 5:21,22

“Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”

“Test all things; hold fast to what is good, reject every kind of evil.”

With so much spiritual deception entering the church today, we must fix out eyes on Christ alone and never think so highly of a pastor or his ministry that we would think that there is no need to see if what they say or do lines up with Scripture.  There are devastating consequences, spiritually and emotionally, for all who choose to ignore the many warnings given in Scripture about false teachers and spiritual deception.  I pray you will not be one of the many who have been deeply hurt in these ways.  Please study God’s Word and be a Berean; test all that you hear and see in light of Scripture so that if something unbiblical is ever said or done you will be able to detect it immediately and not be led astray.

You can read Dave Corning’s statement at the link below, along with the other statements that were all originally posted on:  THE ELEPHANT’S DEBT

9/17/13 A FOURTH RECENTLY RESIGNED ELDER, RUSS BARNEY SPEAKS PUBICLY IN DEFENSE OF MARQUARDT, PHELPS, AND SLABAUGH

9/18/13 DAVID CORNING FORMER 20 YEAR CHAIRMAN OF THE HBC ELDER BOARD SPEAKS PUBLICLY FOR THE FIRST TIME

JIM JODREY, FORMER HBC ELDER NOW COMES FORWARD TO GIVE HIS STATEMENT AND CAN BE READ AT THE LINK BELOW:

10/2/13 YET ANOTHER FORMER HBC ELDER AND MEMBER OF THE VOID COMES FORWARD TO PUBLICLY SPEAK FOR THE FIRST TIME

NOW ANOTHER RECENT ELDER, FRED AGASE, HAS LEFT THE ELDER BOARD, AND YOU CAN READ HIS STATEMENT BELOW:

10/7/13 A FIFTH RECENT ELDER HAS LEFT THE ELDER BOARD AND LEFT HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL

**10/9/13**MIKE MEDOWS, FORMER HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL MEMBER, URGES THOSE AT HARVEST TO PRAYERFULLY AND CAREFULLY ASK THEMSELVES AN HONEST QUESTION.  AND YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT THAT QUESTION IS AT THE LINK BELOW:

ONE PERSON’S STORY — MIKE MEDOWS — RINGS FAMILIAR

10/7/13 Ugh!  I wrote SO much more on this update, but Firefox crashed and I lost hours of writing! 😦  I will try again when time allows.  Next time I update a post I will have to hit the ‘Update’ button every few minutes so I don’t lose hours of writing again!

**UPDATE 10/7/13** 8:46 p.m.  I took some time to add most of the thoughts I wrote but lost earlier, and will add some more when time allows.

FURTHER READING:

**ADDED 3-7-14** SPIRITUAL ABUSE — WHEN IS IT TIME TO LEAVE – BY RICK THOMAS

 

*****************************************************************************

COMMENTS

Feel free to comment and to express your sorrow over what you may have gone through — and your concerns as well — but do not use your comments to attack one another or James MacDonald, etc. 

Comments based on facts will be posted, and comments that seek to expose error, as well, but make a ‘righteous judgment.’  (John 7:24)

When necessary, cite Scriptures to back up your reasons for what you choose to say, and keep your focus on the subject matter at hand. 

Any comments seeking only to draw people to your own site by using links, will not be published.

As much as I would like to, I may not be able to reply to each comment, but I appreciate every one of you who may choose to take the time to make one.

If you would like to make a comment, but do not want to reveal your identity, consider choosing a different name to post your comment under, or post your comment including the fact that you do not want your comment to be posted, and I will respect your request and not post your comment, but will respond to you directly.

Express yourself respectfully to me and to one another.

Keep in mind that comments using profanity will not be published. 

**(ADDED 7/24/12) QUESTIONS FOR YOU

Do you firmly believe that all is well at Harvest, and there’s no need for concern?

If not, what have you observed at Harvest that is causing you to be concerned? 

Have you tried to express your concerns to someone in leadership at Harvest?

If so, what was their response to you?

How many years have you been attending Harvest?

How long have you been concerned about what is happening at Harvest?

Would you all consider gathering together as a group and expressing your concerns to an elder or pastor?

What would be the ‘last straw’ so-to-speak, that would cause you to leave?

Are you at least warning your children and friends of your valid concerns based on Scripture; not to be divisive, but to protect them from being deceived?

If you are attending a church other than Harvest, and are strongly considering leaving, what is happening there that is causing you to be so concerned?

I hope to hear from some of you.

Thank you very much for stopping by and taking time to read some of my posts and poems.

God Bless You

~Mary Dalke/Living4HisGlory

**UPDATED**   SATURDAY, 8/23/14

On Friday I received the following comment through the contact form that I added to this post.  And since I am unable to post comments that I receive through contact forms in the ‘comment section,’ I decided to ‘quick captured’ it and post it below. Lord willing, I’ll reply to Monika’s comment tomorrow or Monday.

Capture Comment made by Monika on 'Warning You With Tears'

**UPDATED 8-26-14 12:33 a.m.** MY REPLY:

Thank you for stopping by, Monika.  And thank you also for taking the time to send me your comment using the  ‘contact form‘ on this post which I now removed to avoid future problems replying to comments. 

Even though you assumed that I wouldn’t post your comment, believing, as you said, that I choose only to post “comments that will justify me,” you can now see that simply is not true.  If you will take time to read some other comments on this post, as well as comments on some of my other posts, you will see that I post comments by those who disagree with me, as well as those who agree with me. 

Even though I have been receiving many more views on my blog over the past couple of years, the reason that there aren’t many comments by those who disagree with me is simply because not many people take the time to make a comment, whether it’s a comment expressing agreement and encouragement, or complete disagreement. 

Concerning judging someone: I will not judge a person’s heart concerning their relationship with God, or their motive for doing what they do, but I will do what God’s Word tells us as Christians to do, and that is to: ‘examine the Scriptures daily to see if what teachers and pastors say is true’ (Acts 17:11),   “make a righteous judgment” (John 7:24), and how we are to ‘judge them by their fruits.’  (Matthew 7:15-20)  We are told to “earnestly contend for the faith,”  (Jude 3) therefore I will continue to be one of many voices warning and reminding believers that we are to “be alert, for our enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour,” (1 Peter 5:8) and how we are to ‘keep our eyes on Jesus’ (Hebrews 12:2) and not on a man and his ministry. 

God’s Word clearly tells us that we are ‘not to judge those outside the church, but we are to judge those inside the church,’ (1 Corinthians 5:11-13).  And in verse 13 God’s Word even says to “expel the wicked man from among you.”  First we must always be certain to examine our own hearts (Matthew 7:5, 2 Corinthians 13:5), using God’s Word as our standard for absolute truth. 

Throughout the New Testament false teachers were called out by name.  (Some examples: 2 Timothy 1:15, 2:17, 3:8, 4:10, 14)  God’s Word makes it clear that “even from our own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after themselves” (Acts 20:25-31)  In Matthew 24 when Jesus replied to the question His disciples asked Him concerning ‘what would be the sign of His coming and of the end of the age,’  the first thing He was quick to say was,  “Watch out that no one deceives you,” making it very clear that spiritual deception will be prevalent in the days immediately preceding His return.  We must be on guard so that we will not be deceived by false teachers.  Studying God’s Word and warning others of false teachers is part of a believer’s responsibility so that we might protect ourselves and others. 

Many are now aware of how God is beginning to expose the sins and failures of certain men in ministry, and He will continue to do so.  A pastor is held to an even higher standard than we are, and he is to reflect the character of Christ , and to be holy as He is holy in word and in conduct  just as other believers are to be.  Sadly, though, many pastors these days fail in both of those areas and do not measure up to the qualifications for an elder listed in Titus 1:6-9 

I sin daily in many ways, and have never claimed to be perfect.  When I sin it is a constant reminder to me that I am a wretched sinner saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and I will be forever grateful for what Jesus did for me, and so very thankful that God opened my eyes to the truth of His Word by His Holy Spirit. 

The sad truth is that many Christian leaders today have lost the “fear of the LORD.”  I can say that because a true God-fearing man would not do and say the things that some pastors have done and said if they had a reverent fear of God.  While I will admit there is definitely no such thing as a perfect church or a perfect pastor, God has clearly revealed in Scripture how a true man of God is to live, and how we are to trust God to grow the church (Acts 2:47) and not use worldly marketing strategies and present a watered-down gospel which will only succeed in producing  ‘false converts.

I am happy to say that for the past 2  1/2 years, I have been attending a church that is pastored by a very humble man.  And although he is not perfect, (for none of us are), he reflects the character of Christ, and also faithfully preaches God’s Word verse by verse, Sunday after Sunday without twisting Scripture in an attempt to use the text for his own purposes.  However, because of all the warnings in Scripture concerning false teachers and spiritual deception in the last days, I have learned the importance of being a Berean (Acts 17:11) and will continue to test everything in light of Scripture because I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not a follower of a man and his ministry.

And, no matter what others may say or think about me, I will continue to bring to light what needs to be exposed, always taking time first to examine the intentions of my heart, and pausing with reverence and fear before a Holy God whom I will one day stand before and have to give an account of my life to, as we will all have to do one day.  And, with that thought always on my mind, it becomes the other reason why I cannot remain silent when something needs to be exposed, because, regardless of what you may think, as long as our motives are pure, we as Christians do have the responsibility to warn others so that they would realize the importance of following Jesus Christ alone  so they will never be led astray.

God Bless You, Monika

Sincerely,

Mary (Just a simple woman who sincerely does spend time in prayer with our Redeemer).

 WARNING YOU WITH TEARS

He once stood strong and never wavered from all that’s Biblical and true,

But now my pastor’s slow drift to compromise has caused him to do things I

never thought he’d do,

So now I look around my church and wonder, as my eyes fill up with tears,

Lord, is it now time for me to leave, after all these years?

Who will warn them if I go, this concern weighs on my heart,

But I will choose to trust You, Lord, and ask that discernment to them

You will impart,

Twice now, men were placed in the pulpit, who told stories and twisted

Your Word,

They led many people to erupt with cheers and thunderous applause in

thanks for my pastor, but a Biblical teaching  was never given; never heard,

When following the crowd it’s so easy to be misled,

What we need to do is pray and be discerning, and think critically instead,

So many lack discernment, for they place their trust in these hi-profiled

Christian men,

They neglect to test these pastors words against Your Word, time and time

again,

How could he have allowed those certain men to take his place and

‘preach’ on days when he wasn’t here,

If these men reflect what my pastor now believes, the time for me to leave

indeed is near,

There was a time when I left my church but came back and continued to

pray for him to change,

Yet my pastor now seems to prefer having ‘conversations’ discussing the

‘elephant in the room,’ and my concern heightens over things that sound

quite strange:

Most pastors beckon people forward to repent and follow Christ, just as

Jesus said, “Repent” and “Follow Me,”

Yet my pastor once urged people to ‘come forward to become a member of

the church,’ and many came forward, how could this be?

I am warning you with tears, don’t be so quick to believe and respond to all

you are told and told to do,

Don’t allow emotions to rule and mislead you, only respond to things that

are Biblical and true,

Be alert and aware, and be sure to compare, the words of men with the

truth of God’s Word,

For the time is now here, and I warn you with tears, manipulation mixed

with truth is now heard,

Do not be deceived, only God’s Word must be believed, no matter what

others may say,

Discernment He will give you, and wisdom to know what is true, if you

choose to seek God and earnestly pray,

The lines have been blurred between truth and error, by what he has done

and continues to do,

But we must take time to examine the Scriptures, and in context see

if what is being said is really true,

Will you listen to God’s Spirit as He opens your ears and eyes,

To lead you into all His truth and out of confusion and compromise?

Deep in your heart some of you know the time has come, to take a stand

for truth and finally leave,

But first please express your valid concerns, even though their response

to you may cause you to grieve,

The time has come for all of us, to follow Christ, and Christ alone,

To test the words of everyone, and by His Spirit His truth we will be shown,

Will you respond to His call and choose to walk in truth, just as we are

clearly told to do?

Or will you stay and ignore God’s leading, and this prayerful, tear-filled

pleading, the choice is now completely up to you.

Copyright© 2012 Mary K. Dalke/Living For His Glory/Living4HisGlory All rights reserved.  Unauthorized use and/or duplication of any material on Living4HisGlory’s Blog without expressed permission by this blog’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited.  Excerpts and links to information may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Mary K. Dalke and Living4HisGlory’s Blog, as well as the author of any of the information at any of the links posted, with appropriate and specific direction to the original content.

Photo obtained from Photobucket – Tears- 2-1

Scriptures taken from The Holy Bible New International Version® 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society.  Used by permission of Zondervan.  All rights reserved.

You May Also Be Interested In Reading The Following Poems As Well As Some Added Information:

Like Sheep Without A Shepherd (Poem I wrote after leaving Harvest)

An Anchor For My Soul

There’s A Famine In The Land

‘There’s A Famine In The Land’ My Thoughts, Scriptures, And Information

What Happened To The Gospel

 

**UPDATED TUESDAY 8-26-14**  12:34 a.m.  ADDED MY REPLY TO COMMENT MENTIONED IN UPDATE BELOW.  (SEE DIRECTLY UNDER THE ‘QUICK CAPTURE’ OF THE COMMENT.  DATED 8-25-14)

SATURDAY 8-23-14**  ADDED COMMENT I RECEIVED THROUGH THE ‘CONTACT FORM.’ I ADDED TO THIS POST WHICH I NOW REMOVED TO AVOID NOT BEING ABLE TO POST THESE COMMENTS IN THE COMMENT SECTION AND REPLY TO THEM THERE, AS WELL.  (DATE IN RED).

**UPDATED FRIDAY 3-7-14 ** ADDED EXCELLENT ARTICLE ‘SPIRITUAL ABUSE – WHEN IS IT TIME TO LEAVE’ BY RICK THOMAS – SEE UNDER ‘FURTHER READING’

**UPDATED WEDNESDAY 10/9/13 ** — ANOTHER FORMER HARVEST MEMBER  — MIKE MEADOW — SPEAKS OUT AND WARNS THOSE OF YOU AT HARVEST TO PRAYERFULLY AND CAREFULLY CONSIDER JAMES MACDONALD’S CHARACTER IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE — DATE HIGHLIGHTED IN RED

**UPDATED MONDAY 10/7/13 **  DATE HIGHLIGHTED IN RED

UPDATED SUNDAY 6/30/13 2:19p.m.**  DATE HIGHLIGHTED IN RED

**UPDATED TUESDAY 6/25/13** IN LIGHT OF RECENT DEVELOPMENTS, I WILL BE BRIEFLY UPDATING THIS POST (LORD WILLING) TOMORROW, WITH NEW INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF.  UNTIL THEN, I ASK THAT YOU EARNESTLY PRAY FOR DISCERNMENT CONCERNING WHAT YOU ARE BEING TOLD AT HARVEST BIBLE CHAPEL ROLLING MEADOWS, AND LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE TO SEE IF  ANY VALID QUESTIONS COME TO MIND.  THINK FOR YOURSELVES! 

PRAYING FOR ALL OF YOU.

**UPDATED 4/07/13** ADDED ‘WRETCHED RADIO’ VIDEOS I JUST FOUND CONCERNING ‘T D JAKES AND ER2,’ AS WELL AS ‘5th CHURCH SEPARATES FROM HARVEST BIBLE FELLOWSHIP’

TO AVOID FURTHER PROBLEMS, CONTACT FORM HAS NOW BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS POST.  IF YOU’D LIKE TO CONTACT ME, CLICK ON THE ‘IF YOU’D LIKE TO CONTACT ME‘ AT THE VERY TOP OF MY BLOG